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Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44983		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Hot off the presses at Ann Arbor Guitars is our latest video put together by David Collins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgkcA9ikHFQ&app=desktop

enjoy!
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Nice video - lots of techniques to see there. Thanks for sharing that.
Author:  Tom West [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Love to see ex machinists at work...........!! Nice video..!!
Tom
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Pretty slick trick on the rabbeting with the Dremel... how did you hold the Dremel?
Author:  SteveG [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Wow, That saddle slotting mill is (fill in the blank, here).

Did David ever do a small run of them like you talked about here ? :

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43204

This one looks like a new version.

cheers
Author:  Josh H [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Chris Pile wrote:
Pretty slick trick on the rabbeting with the Dremel... how did you hold the Dremel?


For a while now I've been trying to figure out a good setup for rabbeting along the bottom edge of the bridge. Now I know how. Thanks.
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Chris Pile wrote:
Pretty slick trick on the rabbeting with the Dremel... how did you hold the Dremel?


This is a pretty well-known process and Collings Guitars does it as well. I think that Terry Kennedy also does it this way or has.

The Dremel is mounted in a modified Stew-Mac router/Dremel base and a false table with a slight radius to mirror the radius of tops is imparted to the false table. Stops are adjustable for the .003" inset that Dave likes and the .010" inset that I need to be capable of even seeing it..... :? Stops are also adjustable for finish thickness and depth of cut.

It makes for a very neat installation with the finish tucked ever so slightly under the bridge but still the wood-to-wood contact is at times expanded 40% beyond what the manufacturer left us..... More wood-to-wood, decent HHG techniques, scraping prior to gluing and this is about as good as it gets without using lag bolts... It also mirrors how the instrument originally looked as well with the finish undisturbed and intact.

There are actually a ton of imbedded tips and tidbits in this specific video.

One of the very most useful ones has yet to be mentioned and that is the set-up for gluing the bridge with HHG and more specifically the use of the clamp, risers, masking tape, etc. to preposition the clamp so that once the HHG is applied the clamping pressure can be done very quickly. I think that Dave mentioned 30 seconds in the video but we are very capable of having the clamp in place and snugged down in less than 15 seconds. A useful thing with HHG. Note too the caul under the top is also captive to the prepositioned clamp - pretty cool and this is one of Dave's innovations as far as I know as well.
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Yep the Collins Saddle Mill(s) are now available and in production. It was unveiled at an invitation only event last summer at Bryan Galloup's that drew many of the biggest names in the business.

The saddle mill received critical acclaim from many of the folks at this gathering and will be going to some of them soon.

It's not nor was it ever intended to be a hobbyist tool and the costs associated with producing these make it likely economically out of reach for the hobby builder. But... for folks who have to true up a saddle slot for say the installation of a UST (under saddle transducer) or who are authorized or even not authorized to do say Martin repair work where moving a saddle slot is not an uncommon thing with 70's Martins it's a life saver....

For builders who work in the trade, appreciate the very best and are convinced that slotting the saddle slot on the finished instrument is more precise than leaving all of this to where the bridge gets glued on it's also an option.

There are other applications as well such as imbedding an UST under a through saddle and/or installing a UST in a classical but not doing anything that shows to the instrument in the process.

We never anticipated a total lifetime market for these mills of more than say a dozen or so but that never stops us from wanting to advance the craft and do the very best work that we can, always.

Lastly it looks a little different because the last time that we showed it here on the OLF was the last of several pre-production prototypes. The production models are anodized, come with router installed AND calibrated including a special and very expensive chuck and bit to keep the tolerances tight.

These mills are being sold direct and though personal contact with prospective clients who we know to have the volume of work and the level of interest to be interested. Much like the PLEK model by the way.
Author:  murrmac [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Hesh wrote:
Lastly it looks a little different because the last time that we showed it here on the OLF was the last of several pre-production prototypes. The production models are anodized, come with router installed AND calibrated including a special and very expensive chuck and bit to keep the tolerances tight.


Don't forget the custom brass knobs instead of the old plastic ones ... [:Y:]
Author:  Clinchriver [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Very nice job, thanks for sharing. Giving the customer what they want is the bottom line.
The existing bridge plate appears to be plywood, would it be too invasive to replace it with a nice maple or ultimately black locust bridge plate?
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
David showed that jig a number of years ago on the OLF and I made a crude copy that works well.

I made a 30' radiused base that I attached to the StewMac Dremel router base. I used the SM edge guide with a wood post so the router bit could push into it and expose only a portion of the 1/8" bit.

I just clamp it in the vise and use initial climb cuts followed by conventional cuts. I usually do test cuts on scrap to get the depth right so the ledge just clears the finish.

I made the mistake of not getting the corners of the wings cut evenly and not getting the finish removed perfectly in the corners and had a couple of wings lift and had to reglue down the line early on but after that got fixed the technique has worked great.

Great video


Image
Author:  cphanna [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
That's excellent! Very nice and informative video. I used to have one of those plastic bridges on my old Gibson LG 1. I didn't even know it was plastic until it started to curl up. I made a new bridge for my guitar (all but routing the saddle slot) back sometime in the 70s. I chickened out at the end and hired a repair man to install it and rout the saddle slot for me. It was my first attempt at a guitar repair. I doubt my guitar has all the fastidious hole plugs and bridge plate repairs featured here, but it has held up well. Again, a very informative video. It shows me how much there will always be to learn, and techniques to which I can aspire. Thanks for posting this. (Man...that was a LOOOOONG time ago...)
Author:  James Orr [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Great video.
Author:  David Collins [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Thanks everyone. I've just started getting in to making videos, and am having fun with it (plus it allows the business to buy some nicer cameras and video equipment, which I can borrow from time to time :) ).

Terence - Perfect! Gets the job done quite nicely and efficiently, doesn't it?

Clinch - yes, it would have been nice to put a solid plate on this, but this particular top was a rare example of one of these holding form quite nicely with the original plate. Without any current problems though, I couldn't advocate the extra expense for the owner, especially on an instrument like this which was not really the highest value to begin with. Plus the glue they used during this era (appears to be some form of resorcinol?) can be a ticking time bomb. Sometimes it holds up fine, but often it seems to become very brittle and fracture quite easily. Touch one brace on the inside, and three others immediately fall off kind of thing. Since everything appeared to be holding quite well as it is, I prefer to touch as little as possible in these things, which can respond a little less predictably than others.
Author:  MaxBishop [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Hey Dave,

Great video, Dave!

Any chance of doing a tutorial (wouldn't have to be video) on your little Dremel-powered bridge edge-rabetting jig?

Thanks,
Max
Author:  guitarjtb [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Hesh wrote:
There are actually a ton of imbedded tips and tidbits in this specific video.

One of the very most useful ones has yet to be mentioned and that is the set-up for gluing the bridge with HHG and more specifically the use of the clamp, risers, masking tape, etc. to preposition the clamp so that once the HHG is applied the clamping pressure can be done very quickly. I think that Dave mentioned 30 seconds in the video but we are very capable of having the clamp in place and snugged down in less than 15 seconds. A useful thing with HHG. Note too the caul under the top is also captive to the prepositioned clamp - pretty cool and this is one of Dave's innovations as far as I know as well.


I agree. Lots of useful tips. I paid special attention to the set up for fixing the caul and the clamp in place with the wedges. I have been thinking on that one for a while and am embarrassed that I did not think of it. Getting that stupid caul and clamp in place "after" the glue is applied is really time consuming.

Thanks to Hesh and David for sharing these tips. I also used several of your tips in earlier posts on leveling and dressing frets. The tip on crowning the frets was very useful.


Thanks guys.

James
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
MaxBishop wrote:
Hey Dave,

Great video, Dave!

Any chance of doing a tutorial (wouldn't have to be video) on your little Dremel-powered bridge edge-rabetting jig?

Thanks,
Max

Hey Max! Happy 2015 to ya my friend!

Instead of a video that would take some time to do and right now is a very busy time of year for us with Mother Nature cracking guitar after guitar why not just come on by our shop and we would be happy to see you too. We can go over the jig, you can take pics if you like, and we can show you how we use it too.

Let me know if this sounds like fun to you, we would love to see you and catch up too!

Hesh
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
James Burkett wrote:
Hesh wrote:
There are actually a ton of imbedded tips and tidbits in this specific video.

One of the very most useful ones has yet to be mentioned and that is the set-up for gluing the bridge with HHG and more specifically the use of the clamp, risers, masking tape, etc. to preposition the clamp so that once the HHG is applied the clamping pressure can be done very quickly. I think that Dave mentioned 30 seconds in the video but we are very capable of having the clamp in place and snugged down in less than 15 seconds. A useful thing with HHG. Note too the caul under the top is also captive to the prepositioned clamp - pretty cool and this is one of Dave's innovations as far as I know as well.


I agree. Lots of useful tips. I paid special attention to the set up for fixing the caul and the clamp in place with the wedges. I have been thinking on that one for a while and am embarrassed that I did not think of it. Getting that stupid caul and clamp in place "after" the glue is applied is really time consuming.

Thanks to Hesh and David for sharing these tips. I also used several of your tips in earlier posts on leveling and dressing frets. The tip on crowning the frets was very useful.


Thanks guys.

James


Hi ya James! Around eight years ago when I was apprenticing with Dave was my first exposure to his set-up for prepositioning clamps for bridge reglues with HHG. It was so very simple that it was complicated! :D I kicked myself a few times too over not being able to come up with this on my own.

For years I have been wanting to post a pic of the set-up because it's simple, it works, does not require more stuff, and permits those on the fence with their HHG chops to be capable of having the clamps in place very quickly making HHG an option for some where it was not prior.

Now that the cat is out of the bag (no cats were harmed in making this statement....) I'm happy because I no longer have to worry about shooting off my mouth over this.... :D

Glad that you liked the video too!
Author:  MaxBishop [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Hesh,

Thanks for the invite. I have been thinking about paying a visit. What would be a good day/time? I'm pretty flexible.

Thanks,
Max
Author:  James Orr [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Hesh wrote:
James Burkett wrote:
Hesh wrote:
There are actually a ton of imbedded tips and tidbits in this specific video.

One of the very most useful ones has yet to be mentioned and that is the set-up for gluing the bridge with HHG and more specifically the use of the clamp, risers, masking tape, etc. to preposition the clamp so that once the HHG is applied the clamping pressure can be done very quickly. I think that Dave mentioned 30 seconds in the video but we are very capable of having the clamp in place and snugged down in less than 15 seconds. A useful thing with HHG. Note too the caul under the top is also captive to the prepositioned clamp - pretty cool and this is one of Dave's innovations as far as I know as well.


I agree. Lots of useful tips. I paid special attention to the set up for fixing the caul and the clamp in place with the wedges. I have been thinking on that one for a while and am embarrassed that I did not think of it. Getting that stupid caul and clamp in place "after" the glue is applied is really time consuming.

Thanks to Hesh and David for sharing these tips. I also used several of your tips in earlier posts on leveling and dressing frets. The tip on crowning the frets was very useful.


Thanks guys.

James


Hi ya James! Around eight years ago when I was apprenticing with Dave was my first exposure to his set-up for prepositioning clamps for bridge reglues with HHG. It was so very simple that it was complicated! :D I kicked myself a few times too over not being able to come up with this on my own.

For years I have been wanting to post a pic of the set-up because it's simple, it works, does not require more stuff, and permits those on the fence with their HHG chops to be capable of having the clamps in place very quickly making HHG an option for some where it was not prior.

Now that the cat is out of the bag (no cats were harmed in making this statement....) I'm happy because I no longer have to worry about shooting off my mouth over this.... :D

Glad that you liked the video too!


Yep. I don't even care about the Gibson. I doubt I'll ever have to breathe life into one ;) Loved seeing David's bridge-making process, the gluing setup, etc.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
MaxBishop wrote:
Hesh,

Thanks for the invite. I have been thinking about paying a visit. What would be a good day/time? I'm pretty flexible.

Thanks,
Max


Hey Max: Any week day would be fine although I'm out this Friday but usually we are both here M - F, 10 - 6 and closed on weekends.

So really any time is great and it will be good to see you too my friend!
Author:  MaxBishop [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Hesh,

How about this Thursday at around 11:00 AM?

Max
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
MaxBishop wrote:
Hesh,

How about this Thursday at around 11:00 AM?

Max


Perfect - see you then!!
Author:  MaxBishop [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Lookin' forward to it.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing New Life Into An Old Gibson
Closed on weekends?

Incontheviable!
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